Curse

Mai · Apr 11, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedyKQ

So many problems would go away if they would cap an alliance at 1000 people instead of 10 guilds.

/agreed lol

MSecorsky · Apr 11, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

I wonder if there will be a way to see who in your alliance contributed how much faction to the alliance? If so, I can see the light contributors waking up one day to be guildless.

If not...

M3lk0r · Apr 11, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

How come people ALWAYS turn to immature little 8 year olds every time there is talk of a "change" ?

You lot are talking as if there is nothing in Factions other than getting into an alliance to controling a town.

Seriously, your argument is similar to someone who says the just because he/she paid for the game he/she should have FoW armor with perfect rare weapons without any effort or skill.

Loviatar · Apr 11, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

the funny part is that a great number of the people demanding access to the ultra hardest tiny bit of content wouldnt survive the experience longer than the first UW explorers who came back saying we got killed before we could blink

SilentAssassin · Apr 11, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3lk0r

How come people ALWAYS turn to immature little 8 year olds every time there is talk of a "change" ?

You lot are talking as if there is nothing in Factions other than getting into an alliance to controling a town.

Seriously, your argument is similar to someone who says the just because he/she paid for the game he/she should have FoW armor with perfect rare weapons without any effort or skill.

well I agree that some ppl always overreact, oh well thats life

anyways, totally oftopic, I am happy there are other Hitman fans playing GW

Badger2 · Apr 11, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

This question may have already been asked but, with the search function the way it is I can't find it.

How many wins is it going to take for your alliance/faction to have access to these elite areas and how long do you have to get there? If I had to spend x amount of time trying to win access to these areas I may not be able to go right then and play them.

LaMort · Apr 11, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

I am a little surprised ANet have decided to take this path.

What worries me most is, if I am correct if it is being implemented, is the reduced merchant prices for the controlling alliance. If they can buy cheap and sell cheaper than the merchant offers, wont this move the economy away from being balanced around the merchant prices to the top (read: large) alliances. Giving them the ability to push the merchant prices up easier than the normal player, could hand them more control on the economy.

Along with this, another problem I see is that the top (largest) alliance gets control of the nearest outpost to the Capital and the elite mission there. What happens if they decide they want control of the 5th nearest city for the mission there, will they start booting guilds out of their alliance to stop the faction farming for a short period, only to start advertising for more members when they fall back to there? They wont care about loyalty as they will have a monopoly on membership invites.

And as for the forum/ingame adverts for alliance membership for gold, I too see this will become messy, with ppl being kicked after paying their entrance fee etc.

Maybe it will turn out the 4x3 v 4x3 alliances will be able to out-farm the quest driven alliances and, therefore possibly top alliances are more organised. Only time will tell.

Str0b0 · Apr 11, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moa Bird Cultist

My take on it was that the guild or alliance that controlled a town got discounts at the merchant and armourer etc - I seem to recall hearing something along those lines. However, if it turns out more like it has been suggested in this thread, then I would be deeply concerned.

My chief worry is for small PvE based guilds. They wont get into alliances with any decent PvP guilds if this is the case. Why not? Because they wont be 'contributing' to the PvP, simple as that. And of course, PvP is the only realistic way to make faction - once you've done the quests, you only have a couple of repeatable ones which will likely get very boring after a while. So, yes, I'm very concerned that the PvE gamers will be dictated by the PvP gamers even more. And to be fair, a lot of PvP players have no interest in PvE and vice versa for the PvE players, (note I said 'a lot,' not most or all.)

But like everyone else, I'm going to wait and see.

Being a member of a smaller guild I definately see this as a problem. Being only 12 members strong right now we aren't going to be able to drum up alliances with any guild that will allow us to hold territory or towns. We might be able to ally with some other small guilds but to what purpose? Even if we get ten guilds our size to ally that gives us a pool of only 120 people to draw from to do these competitive missions. Now take an alliance of ten of the larger PvP guilds with 100 members or more. That's 1000 people they can draw from, basically they can afford to shotgun the missions until they get it done. The smaller guilds on the other hand have no choice but to pray we can get through because if we don't we just don't have the member base to draw from to keep on trying indefinately. Granted we could continue to try various builds and strategies but we simply do not have the people to support the number of possible permutations in group builds that larger alliances will have. We get more or less shut out by the simple manpower difference. It's one thing to have the content be region specific, like UW and FoW, but to make it alliance specific is going to leave a lot of people out in the cold and pissed off. Faction specific content would have been the best way to go and I know that some of the content will be faction specific. I think it would have been a much better idea to have these special areas of town open to everyone that was allied with a certain faction as opposed to just being a member of whatever alliance holds the town.

I'm sure a lot of people will be saying." Oh but why not just ally with a PvP guild?" For one we don't have attractive membership numbers because we recruit selectively. Secondly because we recruit selectively we don't necessarily want to be allied with just some random bunch of people that someone picked up in Ascalon by spamming a recruitment message. We like to know we can work well with people and communicate effectively. It seems to me numbers, not skill, will be the deciding factor in Factions. Alliances that can shotgun missions and content areas with group after group after group are going to win, and hold more territory simply because the law of averages states that no matter how abyssmal their players are eventually they will win and hold an area.

Aeon221 · Apr 11, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

This is ridiculous.

How many of you have access to elite content, like perfect Sephis Axes, FoW armor, and Crystalline swords? How many of you have held HoH, another piece of elite content, or been on the GvG team of a top 10 guild?

There are some people who have all of that stuff, more who have one or two pieces of it, and the vast majority of us with none of it. The elite players have all of it. Are you elite? Most likely not.

Factions is going to be different, but the same. This time, it will be PEOPLE WHO WORK TOGETHER IN LARGE GROUPS, rather than small groups of gvgers or farmers, who will reap the rewards. It, in fact, expands the number of people who will be able to consider themselves elite.

So stop freaking out about it.

Some bits of misinformationt that need to be cleared up:

1) Alliances bid on a specific town, they are not randomly assigned one. They recieve it at the end of the 24hr period.

2) Faction degrades over time, and the more faction you have, the faster it degrades. Meaning that there is a cap for major faction producers that will work against their best efforts.

3) Although there are two million accounts, there are far less players, and they are spread between 5 regions. That means what, 10 towns per faction per region to control? At 200 towns, and 1000 people per town, the numbers start to make sense. 200,000 players, not 20,000. So 1/10th of all accounts (assuming an erroneous even distribution) will have the opportunity to access all elite content.

*I also remember reading somewhere that faction can be spent by individuals to enter at least some cool parts of an Alliance controlled town. I would be willing to guess that this includes the mish. However, I do not have a source to back up my memory, so buyer beware.

TB_ · Apr 11, 2006, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karmakin

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

huh...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I wasnt refering to the top ranked guilds but the large PvP guilds.

Badger2 · Apr 11, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

snip....
2) Faction degrades over time, and the more faction you have, the faster it degrades. snip...

How do you get/keep faction? By winning in PvP. I don't like the idea of having to win at PvP, GvG or whatever, just to move a line on the map so I can play there only to have the line moved back before I can get there to play.

As for elite areas within the cities, not really that big of a deal. After all I can go to ToA any time, I just can't go to UW or FoW unless we have favor. Of course why else would I want to go to ToA?

Empirism · Apr 11, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

I see clear downsides and good sides for this new system, depends on point of view...it could be interesting, it could be disaster...we dun know.

Though I have few worries conserning this "new system" Im still looking forward to give Anet a change and see how this goin to end, for sure there will come many complainments as well i think there will be many modifications and updates when its out. So c'mon, go with the flow

M3lk0r · Apr 11, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger2

How do you get/keep faction? By winning in PvP. I don't like the idea of having to win at PvP, GvG or whatever, just to move a line on the map so I can play there only to have the line moved back before I can get there to play.

You can also get faction doing specific quests for each faction. So not just PvP.

Divinus Stella · Apr 11, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedyKQ

So many problems would go away if they would cap an alliance at 1000 people instead of 10 guilds.

Il second that, i prefer smaller guilds but i also want to be able to compete in factions and see the game.

koneko · Apr 11, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

like perfect Sephis Axes, FoW armor, and Crystalline swords?

Sorry, I didn't know that eBaying could make any person "elite." I'll get right on that. Got a link? /sarcasm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

rather than small groups of gvgers or farmers, who will reap the rewards

Maybe there are, y'know, reasons for people wanting to play in smaller groups. So those that are just as good as yourself don't get to play just because they don't feel like dealing with kiddies? Somehow, I see this as alienating a part of their userbase (anyone buying the game regardless of playstyle = $$$), but nobody else seems to think so. Seriously.

Sorry, if I wanted to play a game where you had to be "zomg l33t sauce" to play a particular portion of a game, I'd have picked up something else off the shelf at EB last year. Maybe they should mention that on the side of the box of GW:Factions, then?

Then again, what do I know zomgamirite? I'm just a crappy/annoyed and unguilded player that has no idea what I just wrote because I'm drugged up. Seriously.

Mordakai · Apr 11, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by koneko

Sorry, if I wanted to play a game where you had to be "zomg l33t sauce" to play a particular portion of a game, I'd have picked up something else off the shelf at EB last year. Maybe they should mention that on the side of the box of GW:Factions, then?

I think you're overstating a bit.

Some points:

1. No one knows exactly how hard or easy it will be for small guilds to join Alliances and take over towns.

2. We don't know how many "Elite" quests there will be, or even if most of us will notice we don't have access to them. I've never played HoH, and I've never missed it, for example.

3. If the system totally sucks, and enough people complain, you can bet your Quarter Three profits, Anet will change it.

CKaz · Apr 11, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mai

The problem I see in the future is:

"WTS Guild membership with access to Elite missions for X amnt of gold!!"

Better yet, if this works -

Guest membership, access the elite area for 'n' time!
Only xyz Plat!

We'll pay the 100 gold for the invite!

Str0b0 · Apr 11, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I think you're overstating a bit.

Some points:

1. No one knows exactly how hard or easy it will be for small guilds to join Alliances and take over towns.

It's simple math there. We do know that versus the larger"super guilds" we won't stand a chance. It has nothing to do with skill in the missions or anything like that. It's simply a matter of them being able to keep a more or less constant flow of people in the missions that bank faction up and allow them to hold towns. So yeah it will be hard for the smaller guilds just because they won't have the manpower base to constantly farm faction like the larger guilds will. You simply cannot apply the Roman maxim to this situation. Normally I would be the first to say that superior tactics and superior weapons beat numbers every time but in this case I don't think so.

mqstout · Apr 11, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

For an already long discussion of this topic, refer to http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3002566

CKaz · Apr 11, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by koneko

I don't like this, really.

I remember Gaile mentioning something along the lines of "you basically need to join a guild to enjoy some areas, blah blah" or something in the past, I don't quite remember. Here's a thought: I'm sick of looking for a guild at this point, I've been guildless for the past three months and I doubt I'll find a guild before Factions is released. And it's just so much nicer, seriously. How come I don't get to play some of the content because I don't feel like dealing with immature players that argue and spam and fight all the time?

Actually Koneko I agreed with and feel the same way as most of your post.
The kicker is I'm in a *very* cool guild of mature friendly people that work together. The 'problem' is really no one else is as far along as I am, I'm not hitting the areas I'd like to as much, and it's alliance will be a collection of other small casual guilds. I probably fit into 'hardcore casual'

- I have a job, a life, a wife but GW is my gaming time and I'm averaging a little over 100hrs a month

Still that pales in the face of what some other guilds will be doing and to become a cog in that wheel I'd likely be too casual and/or quite frankly, too mature to deal with what I'd find

But I'm the type who wants to see/do it all. I'm also realizing though for at least chapter 2, this may work out poorly, if at all. And it may make absolutely no sense to bring the wife into the world of chapter 2 in the least, being a 'casual casual' to be sure.

One also wonders what chapter 3 and beyond will bring, more craziness of the same model or something different? And when that comes along will that pose the opportunity for the more casual to finally get somewhere with the previously locked off gems in chapter 2? So much up in the air, though at least that Korean interview finally answered more of the questions. But perhaps generated easily that many more to boot...

It's a bit of a crap shoot. They've shown at times they watch the pulse of the fans here, but other times they've shown they either don't care or won't do anything about particular issues as well. T-minus 17ish days.